MechWarrior: Living Legends

Outreach => Matchmaker => Topic started by: Cherno on November 17, 2012, 05:27:10 PM

Title: MWLL Playground: Feedback thread
Post by: Cherno on November 17, 2012, 05:27:10 PM
Well folks, we played some evenings (depending on your TZ ;) ) together, so it's time to evaluate what has or hasn't been accomplished so far.

Apart from general feedback, I have four seperate issues I would like to discuss. It would be nice if users could also differentiate between these three issues when they comment here :)
Of course, you don't have to comment on all topics.

***
1. Did the Playground events have any meaningful impact on the player numbers on the dates they happened? After a long break from MWLL I immediately jumped into those PG events and haven't played at other times, so I don't know what the players numbers where before at the same times.
***
2. If the PG event timezones are theoretically good for you, wether because you live in the EU TZ or in another part of the world but just happen to have MWLL time to spare at these times, is there any problem playing on the Funbocks server? If you are, say, a U.S. player and have high pings on EU servers anyway, a switch to, say, Bulldoxx (UK), wouldn't do much good. However, If you just can't play on funbocks but on any similar pinged servers, please say so too.
***
3. How many PG events should there be per week? At the moment, we have wednesday and the whole weekend including sunday evening, so that's four potential days to find other plays on.
Two things to ponder:
a) A lot of dates might "spread" the player base thin because a player might think, "Of those three or four days, I'll only play on Saturday, that's enough for me".
b) Too few dates eliminates certain days per week by default, so if a player can only play on Fridays and Sundays, but only Wednesday and Saturday is open, he's out of luck.
***
4. Would it be feasible, from a technical p.o.v., to make the whole procedure of populating servers easier? I recently started playing Natural Selection 2, and a group of players started this thign called "Gathers". Any play can just put his name on a waiting list on a website, and once 12 players are assembled (the default number for competitive matches), a music cue sounds so all players know that they should go on TS and start the game (server, pw etc. is provided too via ts, usually).

The reason I'm asking fot the technical feasibility is because I have no idea how hard it is to code somehing like this for a website. If it's a major task, I doubt anyone able to do so would do it for MWLL, but if it's a matter of 30 minutes to throw some pre-made code together, someone may give it a try.

The big advantage is obviously that players aren't bound to certain times or days, all players in all timezones can just join the waiting list at any time if they know they would like to play but don't want to actually stay along on a server in the game. Only if enough players wait, the game has to actually start.

Main post:

http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=119466

ENSL website:

http://www.ensl.org/
-> NS2 Gather menu on top - You can see how it works just be looking at this website.

So basically, you could just join the waiting list, then keep the browser window open until enough players have joined, and then you will get a signal to start the game. Of course, it takes a certain amount of integrity so all players actually join and don't just say "oh, I can't play now, I have a Modern Warfare 3 match to finish!", or just never should up at all... All players would be expected to leave the waiting list when they know they won't be able to play if the game starts in the the next 30 minutes or so.
***

Discuss ;)
Title: Re: MWLL Playground: Feedback thread
Post by: [IPA] Avatar on November 17, 2012, 07:21:31 PM
1. Did the Playground events have any meaningful impact on the player numbers on the dates they happened?

I don't have the exact numbers, but re-reading the previous threads, I think they have some impact. Before these events it was rare that 1,5-2 servers were populated. Although it would be nice to have some factual data to underpin this.

2. If the PG event timezones are theoretically good for you, wether because you live in the EU TZ or in another part of the world but just happen to have MWLL time to spare at these times, is there any problem playing on the Funbocks server?

I play from the EU and have no problems with Funbocks. I used to play on Huntress a lot and played Bulldog too, which were/are American servers and got decent ping (<= ~150). As I have mentioned earlier I'm willing to join an American server now and then to play with some MWLLers from across the great pond.

3. How many PG events should there be per week?

I'm only interested in the weekend dates, since I can only play then. I have no experience about the weekday events, but I don't think there are more people around who have more spare time in the weekdays then in the weekends.

Instead of increasing the number of playing days, maybe the weekend playing hours could be extended, e.g. having an event in the late afternoon (in Europe; starting at maybe 3-4 pm UTC), in the evening (in Europe; 7-8 pm UTC) and late in the evening in Europe/in the late afternoon in America (11-12 pm UTC).

Also a million internets to you for taking the time and organizing these events. I have only played twice, but the games we played were massive fun and I hope I can join you guys many more times in the  future.
Title: Re: MWLL Playground: Feedback thread
Post by: Cherno on November 18, 2012, 01:51:17 AM
Thanks!

Need moar input pl0x ;)
Title: Re: MWLL Playground: Feedback thread
Post by: okaolias on November 18, 2012, 04:32:52 AM
1. Maybe next week's playgrounds can be moved on different days than the standard Wednesday-Friday-Saturday. It should be easy to compare a normal Wednesday and a playground Wednesday. Far from perfect, I know, just providing food for thought. Maybe I could even help with data collection if you're interested enough.

Going by feel, the servers felt pretty much empty a couple of weeks before the playgrounds started. I do know that, coming from a period of waning enthusiasm, playing some games motivated me to play some more games. Nowadays it feels that there are more people in general. If that's the case, maybe the playgrounds themselves played a part? I do hate speaking without hard numbers, though.

2. Also playing from the EU. I haven't had any real problems with US servers, either.

3. I don't know, maybe a couple on low days (weekdays) to stimulate the populations and another on high days (Friday-weekends) for those super-full games? Like Tuesday-Thursday-Saturday or something. In general, moving things around a bit and making comparisons would be a good idea. Even if it doesn't go as well, you'll know that you were doing it right all along.



Cherno, you've taken a great initiative with the playground threads. I've had both good and bad games, but the vast majority, regardless of results or personal performance, were boatloads of fun, and I'm sure they can get even better. Thanks a lot!
Title: Re: MWLL Playground: Feedback thread
Post by: [CG]Anastasius Focht on November 18, 2012, 04:45:15 AM
Plus one for you and Cherno

Great work ppl
Title: Re: MWLL Playground: Feedback thread
Post by: Cherno on November 18, 2012, 12:36:56 PM
You are all very welcome, however I don't want this to get blown out of proportion so let's just say that this operation wouldn't work without player actually doing their part and helping populate servers, maybe even with some downtimne involved.

Two things I'm thinking about at the moment:

1. Changing to a U.S.-based server for one of the weekend days, Saturday or Sunday
2. Just making a seperate thread for a dedicated U.S. based Playground event, even though I probably won't be able to participate myself, but it would help anyway I guess :)
Title: Re: MWLL Playground: Feedback thread
Post by: Cherno on November 18, 2012, 08:18:12 PM
Also, MOAR!
Title: Re: MWLL Playground: Feedback thread
Post by: Wasted Almond on November 18, 2012, 10:22:03 PM
1. Did the Playground events have any meaningful impact on the player numbers on the dates they happened?

I personally think they have had a noticeable impact, and its just what the mod needed(I was getting worried... :()


2. If the PG event timezones are theoretically good for you, wether because you live in the EU TZ or in another part of the world but just happen to have MWLL time to spare at these times, is there any problem playing on the Funbocks server?

Personally I have no problem with funbocks, but as stated people from NA have some connection issues there.
I think the change to a UK server would be fine. North American people should get better connection there, and euro's wont have to
join a server over the lake.

3. How many PG events should there be per week?
a) A lot of dates might "spread" the player base thin because a player might think, "Of those three or four days, I'll only play on Saturday, that's enough for me".
b) Too few dates eliminates certain days per week by default, so if a player can only play on Fridays and Sundays, but only Wednesday and Saturday is open, he's out of luck.

a+b) I like the current Wednesday + weekend format. No change required here IMO.

4. Would it be feasible, from a technical p.o.v., to make the whole procedure of populating servers easier?I recently started playing Natural Selection 2, and a group of players started this thign called "Gathers". Any play can just put his name on a waiting list on a website, and once 12 players are assembled (the default number for competitive matches), a music cue sounds so all players know that they should go on TS and start the game (server, pw etc. is provided too via ts, usually).

I like that idea, only someone needs to write the program first. And I'd imagine the devteam is too understaffed/busy, to help here.
If you can get someone to make this program I would definitely use it.
Title: Re: MWLL Playground: Feedback thread
Post by: [IPA] Taltos on November 19, 2012, 10:17:53 AM
***
1. Did the Playground events have any meaningful impact on the player numbers on the dates they happened? After a long break from MWLL I immediately jumped into those PG events and haven't played at other times, so I don't know what the players numbers where before at the same times.
***
Hm, there's a stats tracker (for players and servers) around which you could use for this, I never seem to be able to find it, though. :-(

2. If the PG event timezones are theoretically good for you, wether because you live in the EU TZ or in another part of the world but just happen to have MWLL time to spare at these times, is there any problem playing on the Funbocks server? If you are, say, a U.S. player and have high pings on EU servers anyway, a switch to, say, Bulldoxx (UK), wouldn't do much good. However, If you just can't play on funbocks but on any similar pinged servers, please say so too.
***
I'm in Euro TZ, and have great ping to funbocks, so all is well. Also, the playgrounds so far have been timed to be evenings in europe and late evenings/night in russia, which generated som great population. I'm not sure if it's feasible to find a time where we can include everyone from europe, russia, USA, australasia/oceania - I think it could make more sense to find two separate times.
From taking part in meetings of a globe-spanning developer team, some research among us showed that the best/most feasible time accessible to most people is around 1700-1900 GMT on weekends - this spans from early morning on the US west coast, to around midnight in japan.

3. How many PG events should there be per week? At the moment, we have wednesday and the whole weekend including sunday evening, so that's four potential days to find other plays on.
Two things to ponder:
a) A lot of dates might "spread" the player base thin because a player might think, "Of those three or four days, I'll only play on Saturday, that's enough for me".
b) Too few dates eliminates certain days per week by default, so if a player can only play on Fridays and Sundays, but only Wednesday and Saturday is open, he's out of luck.
***
I think the current rotation (wed + weekend) is pretty good. I think 3 times a week at most, to not spread too thin, so wed,fri,sat. you could stagger the weekdays every other week to catch people who are on a tight schedule (say, always nightshift on wednesdays),  so wed-fri-sat on even weeks, thu-sat-sun on odd weeks.

4. Would it be feasible, from a technical p.o.v., to make the whole procedure of populating servers easier? I recently started playing Natural Selection 2, and a group of players started this thign called "Gathers". Any play can just put his name on a waiting list on a website, and once 12 players are assembled (the default number for competitive matches), a music cue sounds so all players know that they should go on TS and start the game (server, pw etc. is provided too via ts, usually).
***
no idea, but I think this heavily depends on what the crysis engine provides, so I don't think we'll see it.
Title: Re: MWLL Playground: Feedback thread
Post by: Spooky on November 19, 2012, 10:43:12 AM
Hm, there's a stats tracker (for players and servers) around which you could use for this, I never seem to be able to find it, though. :-(

I am currently tracking the MWLL stats here: http://dgstats.spikx.net/index.php?s=mwll (since the stats tracker on the main website is still tracking the wrong numbers). It currently uses the stats from Gametracker (http://www.gametracker.com/search/?search_by=server_variable&search_by2=modname&query=MWLL&sort=&order=&searchipp=50). An alternative would be Game-Monitor (http://www.game-monitor.com/search.php?search=modname=MWLL&type=variable&&num=100) (but they scan the servers less frequent than Gametracker, so I am using the numbers from Gametracker right now).
Title: Re: MWLL Playground: Feedback thread
Post by: Cherno on November 19, 2012, 12:32:42 PM
@ Taltos: Good idea about staggering the weekdays, I will try this out.
About the "Gather" thing, it's not connected to the game engine in any way, just a website function.
Title: Re: MWLL Playground: Feedback thread
Post by: cyofee on November 19, 2012, 04:09:09 PM
Players outside of Europe can host their own events on servers closer to them. Cherno doesn't hold a monopoly on events.
Title: Re: MWLL Playground: Feedback thread
Post by: Cherno on November 19, 2012, 04:12:35 PM
Absolutely, problem is, it's not happening :D
Title: Re: MWLL Playground: Feedback thread
Post by: cyofee on November 19, 2012, 04:38:07 PM
Absolutely, problem is, it's not happening :D
I know it's not, but I don't get why. There are dozens of people complaining about the lag to Funbocks.
Title: Re: MWLL Playground: Feedback thread
Post by: Spooky on November 19, 2012, 05:24:06 PM
Well, for starters, some of the alternative servers are simply broken. Bulldog is at least, and someone else said they have the same problem on other (US based) servers.
Title: Re: MWLL Playground: Feedback thread
Post by: SJ SaKhan Wolf on November 19, 2012, 05:40:05 PM
Perhaps it's time someone stepped up and put some money into the US server problem. Huntress left a gap when it had to be closed. It was run through www.nfoservers.com if someone is interested and needs a reliable host.
Title: Re: MWLL Playground: Feedback thread
Post by: Cherno on November 19, 2012, 05:45:45 PM
With Bulldog out of the loop, I currently see no way to make a joint US/EU server happen. I will start two seperate Playground threads for this week, one for US and one for EU. US gets a server of their choice and EU plays on Funbocks as usual. I hope this is in the interest of all parties involved ;)
Title: Re: MWLL Playground: Feedback thread
Post by: [IPA] Taltos on November 19, 2012, 06:06:00 PM
you could even do the staggered-days thing for EU/US, too (i.e. when EU is on wed-fri-sat, US is on thu-sat-sun, then the other way round). that way, there's less overlap and so less chance of ending up with two half-filled servers, with the exception of saturday, which is the strongest in population probably anyway, reducing the half-filled server probability.
or would that fragment too much? I'm not sure, this depends on if US/EU people will still play on the other "side's" higher-lag server, or decide to stay away until "their" event comes up.
Title: Re: MWLL Playground: Feedback thread
Post by: Cherno on November 19, 2012, 06:22:21 PM
That's how I planned it, yet.
How servers are populated, or rather continue to be populated, in the EU and US "downtimes" is up to the players... I can only suggest to play at certain times ;)
Title: Re: MWLL Playground: Feedback thread
Post by: Cherno on November 19, 2012, 06:27:29 PM
What would be a good time for a US timezome-based PG event?
Title: Re: MWLL Playground: Feedback thread
Post by: Cherno on November 19, 2012, 10:53:03 PM
Derp

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

Could one of the US players please chime in and give a suggestion for a nice US time? My browser window with the Playground-US thread has been sitting there for hours now and it just needs a time for the event to start  8)
Title: Re: MWLL Playground: Feedback thread
Post by: Ressk [CSF] on November 20, 2012, 02:51:11 AM
Im from canada buuuuut...


please go to GMT-6, UTC-6 or central standard time. it works for most of us..
Title: Re: MWLL Playground: Feedback thread
Post by: Cherno on November 20, 2012, 11:32:43 AM
Good. That's the time I chose anyway ;)
Title: Re: MWLL Playground: Feedback thread
Post by: okaolias on November 21, 2012, 10:04:17 PM
So, I was on today for a bit, and it was mainly 4v4 TC. Just a single data point, but still, quite the difference compared to the past couple of Wednesdays.

Edit: Looking at Spooky's tracker, it seems the population got up to around 20 players. Still, when compared to the past week it was fewer people for a shorter time.
Title: Re: MWLL Playground: Feedback thread
Post by: Cherno on November 22, 2012, 10:17:07 AM
That's disappointing. Hopefully the numbers will pick up on the weekend.
Title: Re: MWLL Playground: Feedback thread
Post by: Ressk [CSF] on November 22, 2012, 08:56:16 PM
Id love to sign up CSF (all of us) for a slot, but we're so busy...
Title: Re: MWLL Playground: Feedback thread
Post by: Cherno on November 22, 2012, 10:37:08 PM
Tell me about it, I don't get to play much myself  :'(
Title: Re: MWLL Playground: Feedback thread
Post by: Cherno on November 25, 2012, 07:11:39 PM
I'd like to get some opinions from our Australian and New Zealand players; specifically if it's been possible for them to participate in any MWLL gaming lately, maybe on one of the PG-US events.
Title: Re: MWLL Playground: Feedback thread
Post by: Cherno on November 27, 2012, 07:49:46 PM
Derrrrrp
Title: Re: MWLL Playground: Feedback thread
Post by: Marlin on December 09, 2012, 02:45:35 PM
I think the Funbocks server are more forgiving when more players are up. Matchbox kicked me out at 16 repeatedly so I could not do much yesterday.