Author Topic: Comstar's Invisible Truth  (Read 10374 times)

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Offline KiloEcho

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Re: Comstar's Invisible Truth
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2008, 07:48:19 PM »
Probably because they were needed to garrison the border worlds of the Clan advances as well as to fortify what remained of the Free Rasalhauge Republic.  And the fact that the Com Guards were originally created to protect their HPG Stations throughout the Inner Sphere and not go fighting against invading armies.

And, assuming for a moment that the Com Guards wanted to wipe out the clans, you would have to leave ships behind to protect your worlds or take out the invading clans currently in the Inner Sphere to secure that front.  Then, you would have to organize the fleet and provide enough resources and material to support a campaign that would take a good two years minimum to pull off and return.  Finally, and here's the main reason, they have no idea what forces, or how many planets, the Clans own in Clan space.  The only reason they knew of the Smoke Jaguar forces and Huntress was because Trent defected and provided them with that information.  For all they know, the Clan fleets outnumber theirs ten to one and would all unite to decimate their fleet if they so much as jumped to Strana Mechty.

Logistically, it's a epic risk and a nightmare to organize and pull off.


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Offline Diablo48

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Re: Comstar's Invisible Truth
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2008, 08:40:47 PM »
Good God!  Just looking at Nebfers lists of CS and WoB Combat Jumpships, can't think of any other faction as powerful, with that lot either of the Blakists could glass the entire Chaos March, seriously, what timeline did they have all that, and how did they service them, given that all the naval dock yards big enough for warships were the 1st targets of the 1st Suc War, were they just mothballed?  Dont think any Clan, not even Snow Raven could stand if that entire CS fleet moved at once, makes you wonder why they didnt just strip Strana Mechty, Huntress and all the other Clan Homeworlds, of Atmos from Orbit!

That would be because if they tried that they would be fighting every Clan fleet, not just one.  Also, the current Ghost Bears could probably knock a big hole in that fleet with their Leviathan II.

Offline Tharnow

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Re: Comstar's Invisible Truth
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2008, 10:47:06 PM »
Well, the Invisible Truth was a Cameron Class Battlecruiser.
If we look at http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Cameron_(WarShip) and compare it to the heaviest JumpShip class ever built (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Monolith),  it has more than the double amount of mass, and of course way more weapons (JumpShips are unarmed).

Its like comparing a freight ship (you know, those watercrafts on earth) to a battleship - only that the freighter can launch some small boats (in BT, DropShips).

Edit: I changed the link.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2008, 10:28:53 AM by Tharnow »

Offline Seraph

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Re: Comstar's Invisible Truth
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2008, 10:57:58 PM »
Well, the Invisible Truth was a Cameron Class Battlecruiser.
If we look at http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Cameron_(WarShip) and compare it to the heaviest JumpShip class ever built (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Cameron_(WarShip)),  it has more than the double amount of mass, and of course way more weapons (JumpShips are unarmed).

Its like comparing a freight ship (you know, those watercrafts on earth) to a battleship - only that the freighter can launch some small boats (in BT, DropShips).

Those links are identical?
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Offline Stahlseele

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Re: Comstar's Invisible Truth
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2008, 11:17:21 PM »
now is the biggest usual jumpship which is not a warship the leviathan or the monolith?
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Offline TimoBlastem

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Re: Comstar's Invisible Truth
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2008, 04:35:15 AM »
Warships have the ability to jump on their own, correct?  So when you're jumping a fleet across space, the only things jumping are jumpships (with dropships inside), battle cruisers, and other large warships?


Offline PanzerBoxb

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Re: Comstar's Invisible Truth
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2008, 05:09:01 AM »
Yes, warships tend to have their own jump capability.

Offline (TLL) Heretic

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Re: Comstar's Invisible Truth
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2008, 10:23:14 AM »
Warships are officially classified as "Combat Jumpships".  Jumpships are on the protected species list thanks to the Ares convention, most IS factions will not attack Jumpships as a Jumpship crew will surrender if surrounded and unable to flee.  The only weapons & defences they carry are designed to defeat vape space debris and asteroids, not intended for ship to ship action, or even fighter defence.

Warships are a different story, and they're one of the reasons why the Ares Convention came about (the massive loss of life due to orbital bombardment during the first Succession wars).  They have docking collars for Dropships (some Warships can carry entire regiments and supporting fighters and vehicles).  In general, you wouldn't either need or want a civilian Jumpship in a situation where you are already are employing a Warship, theyre too fragile, and you can carry all the Dropships you need attached to the Warship.

On entering the system, the Dropships will detach, the Jumpsail will be retracted, and then the Warship is free to escort the Dropships, or to do its own thing.  Warships are also incredibly rare in the IS (most being destroyed with their production dockyards in the 1st Succession War), a few can be built every couples of years by the 3060s, no facility large enough to build a Warship existed in the IS in 3025, the cost of running each of these vessels is astronomical, and refits required dockyards of a size that no longer existed.

Thats why I question the fluff on the Comstar Fleet, surely almost all of these must have been mothballed since the fall of Star League, no way Comstar could have afforded such a large standing army and that fleet with just the Terran populations tax c-bills and their HPG monopoly revenue.  The Old Terran Hedgemony would have found it difficult to support that Fleet and field an army with all the planets they owned. No?


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Offline Hellfire

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Re: Comstar's Invisible Truth
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2008, 08:16:27 AM »
Warships are officially classified as "Combat Jumpships".  Jumpships are on the protected species list thanks to the Ares convention, most IS factions will not attack Jumpships as a Jumpship crew will surrender if surrounded and unable to flee.  The only weapons & defences they carry are designed to defeat vape space debris and asteroids, not intended for ship to ship action, or even fighter defence.
Conversely, there are combat jumpships that aren't warships. The Inner Sphere Quetzalcoatl and Clan Comitatus for example.

Check out the guns on the Comitatus. More than just a few pop guns here.
Armament:         
    2 Gauss Rifle
    6 ER Large Laser
    6 ER Medium Laser
   12 LRM 20+ArtIV
   12 AMS
    2 ER PPC
    8 Large Pulse Laser
    4 Medium Pulse Laser
    6 Streak SRM 6
    2 Ultra AC/20
Cargo:
   Bay 1:  Fighters (20) with 2 doors                     
   Bay 2:  Battle Armor Points/Squads (5)               
   Cargo (1) with 1 door                                 
   Bay 3:  Small Craft (5) with 1 door                               

Quote
Warships are a different story, and they're one of the reasons why the Ares Convention came about (the massive loss of life due to orbital bombardment during the first Succession wars).  They have docking collars for Dropships (some Warships can carry entire regiments and supporting fighters and vehicles).  In general, you wouldn't either need or want a civilian Jumpship in a situation where you are already are employing a Warship, theyre too fragile, and you can carry all the Dropships you need attached to the Warship.
On entering the system, the Dropships will detach, the Jumpsail will be retracted, and then the Warship is free to escort the Dropships, or to do its own thing.  Warships are also incredibly rare in the IS (most being destroyed with their production dockyards in the 1st Succession War), a few can be built every couples of years by the 3060s, no facility large enough to build a Warship existed in the IS in 3025,
Except the Titan yards at Terra. IIRC several ships of a new Class came out of the Titan yards in the late 2900's.

Quote
Thats why I question the fluff on the Comstar Fleet, surely almost all of these must have been mothballed since the fall of Star League, no way Comstar could have afforded such a large standing army and that fleet with just the Terran populations tax c-bills and their HPG monopoly revenue.  The Old Terran Hedgemony would have found it difficult to support that Fleet and field an army with all the planets they owned. No?
They had complete monopoly on FTL communications and the most populous and most advanced system in the Inner Sphere. With largely intact infrastructure. Albeit many of the factories where still in mothballs. Maintaining that military would have been easy.  The only question is why the Com Guards where created so late. Especially considering Kerensky gave Blake several SLDF Divisions complete with personnel. I suppose it might have made them a smaller target during the first two Succession Wars. Anyway never question Battletech economics. Beware the FASAnomics.

Offline (TLL) Heretic

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Re: Comstar's Invisible Truth
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2008, 10:05:02 AM »
FASAnomics, made me laugh :)

Comitatus is a great name (after the Landed Legionaires of the late Western Romans no doubt), Looks more like its suited to act as  a beefed up System patrol ship/Light Carrier TBH.  No Naval-class weapons right?  Just Dropship class?  Thats why it's classed as Combat Jumpship and not Warship?


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Offline Hellfire

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Re: Comstar's Invisible Truth
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2008, 02:37:45 PM »
FASAnomics, made me laugh :)

Comitatus is a great name (after the Landed Legionaires of the late Western Romans no doubt), Looks more like its suited to act as  a beefed up System patrol ship/Light Carrier TBH.  No Naval-class weapons right?  Just Dropship class?  Thats why it's classed as Combat Jumpship and not Warship?

Yes, no capital class weapons or armor.

Offline Nebfer

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Re: Comstar's Invisible Truth
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2008, 08:10:08 AM »
The Comitatus is used as a system patrol craft/ jump point guard, as well as a light carrier.

All jump ships have capital scale armor of which the Comitatus has it in a 16/14/12/16 patern (or 160/140/120/160 in standerd scale).

While it dose not have a LF battery for the KF drive making it slow by current standerds. It a very efective system defence ship place one or two in a system and you have efectivly blockaded the system from most attacks. Out side of a warship very few ship can out gun one.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Comitatus
looks good to.

Offline Tharnow

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Re: Comstar's Invisible Truth
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2008, 02:11:42 PM »
Well, the amount of weapons do not distinguish a warship from a jumpship, its the type of K-F drive used.
JumpShips use the standard version, and are always counted as civilians - even if they have military cargo on board, have fighter bays and on board weapons.
WarShips use the compact version of the K-F drive - half the size, but way more complicated to build (100x as expensive).

Of course, being that expensive, no civilian craft would use compact K-F drives - you do not put a nuclear reactor on a freighter in RL either.

Offline Stahlseele

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Re: Comstar's Invisible Truth
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2008, 04:14:36 PM »
well, there are two russian ice breakers that are driven by nuclear reactors . . and one plane
'any kind of discussion of randomness ALWAYS WILL EQUATE to being able to critically hit a mech's reactor by firing a micro beam laser while facing 80 degrees to the side, shooting the ground, which would cause a random explosion which would randomly crit his entire team's reactors which would randomly cause the server itself to explode which would randomly generate a strange quark which would randomly hit the earth and randomly randomness randomfapp the shit fapp random!'
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Offline (TLL) Heretic

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Re: Comstar's Invisible Truth
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2008, 04:40:54 PM »
Thanks for the link Nebfer, enjoyed that piece of obscuretech :)

Used the same link to get the definition of a warship and Tharnow is on the button:

"The defining aspect of a WarShip is the use of a Compact Kearny-Fuchida Drive, an expensive component that has only half the mass of a similarly powerful regular Kearny-Fuchida Drive yet a better integrity, parameters useful exclusively for combat JumpShips. "

So thats the official line, but I'd call anything touting Naval class weapons and armour as a Warship, and the Comitatus with its lack of Naval weapons as a System Patrol Boat/Light Carrier.  Similarily I'd call any Dropship with Naval Weapons and armour a Warship regardless of the fact it doesnt have a K-F Drive (Imagine the Chinese river-only warships which were like floating castles).


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